Curse

Grimm · Feb 25, 2006, 05:27 AM // 05:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arcanis the Omnipotent

Please, quote that out of something Anet and/or any of its employees have actually physically stated somewhere.

Otherwise, shut the hell up.

I quoted something to indicate that from the official FAQ. It's on page one.

Grimm · Feb 25, 2006, 05:47 AM // 05:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Siliconwafer

I wholeheartedly agree (you can add the Strategy market to that too, as well-plenty of competitive RTS players play GW). However, I think GW still attracted a lot of roleplayers because of it's sword, spell and sandal theme.

IMO, A.net should stick to its vision of a largely PvP oriented game. There are plenty of "PvE" MMOs (perhaps not free ones, but still, in GW, you get a lot of PvE for the box price) out there, and GW needs to distinguish itself from the crowd. Don't like where Anet is going? There are plenty who do. I'm sure that successive chapters will draw more of a playerbase suited to this.

I agree 100%. A game cannot be all things to all people. If the developers try, they'll just end up displeasing many players. GW is the only mainstream PvP focused game I'm aware of and I think this type of game has its place. Most game companies try to create games with as broad appeal as possible, watering down the game's concept. This may be a good marketing decision, but I, as a gamer, don't like this marketing/game-design approach.

The PvE part is decent, but it's designed to be played through once or twice, more like a single-player RPG than a MMO. It doesn't have much to do after you play through the game except farm, unlock things for PvP, or play through the same game with another player. If GW was focused mainly on PvE, it would be much more like WoW or other games. Instead it's a new type of game, different from any other online RPG, yet people complain about this and want it to be more like traditional MMOs: higher level caps, mounts, races, "uber" items, etc. If these changes were made, the people who play GW because of what GW actually is, instead of playing it because they can't afford WoW would be unhappy.

I really think that GW should be marketed more heavily as a *competitive* game, instead of as another MMO with no monthly fees. That's not what GW is, but that's the impression that I think many people get, myself included when I first bought the game.

I realize that this all comes off as "elitist", but there are so many other MMOs out there. This game is unique and I'd like for it to stay that way. GW PvE is designed to be played through a few times and then for players to move on to PvP. Anet has tried to give things for PvE only players to do: green items, PvE tombs, Sorrow's Furnace, 15k armor, Fissure Armor, etc. The fact remains, though, that PvP is the central design focus of the game system itself. PvE was designed to fit into the PvP-centric philosophy rather than the other way around like most MMOs. Low level caps, not over-powered items with maximum bonuses, focus on balance, monsters using character skills, etc all illustrate this.

ll THANE ll · Feb 25, 2006, 09:07 AM // 09:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akathrielah

The PvP market is far greater than the PvE market. The 5 million or so WoW players isn't even a drop in a bucket when you compare it to FPS market. Different genres you say? You'll be surprise how many people are from FPS where GW is their first "MMO". A PvP oriented MMO definately has a place in this market.

This game will never attract more FPS fans then RPG`ers, its fantasy game that has all the spells, swords, fantasy creatures, character development etc that a RPG would have in it and it attracts those type of people (mainly), you can see your self what the majority like by just counting all the full districts in all the places on the PvE map then the PvP islands, PvE will have 20+ times the people playing in them in total, that tells you what people use in this game.

People probably play more PvP in this game compared to other MMORPG`s, but still the overwhelming majority actually spend more time playing PvE.

And if another "free" instanced RPG comes out with amazing PvE material I guarantee you will see a large chunk of Guild Wars PvE player base move over to that, unless they make far better PvE in coming chapters.

Fantus · Feb 25, 2006, 02:18 PM // 14:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by twicky_kid

This game is intended for pvp. I don't think any game can do both and be a balanced system unless you seperate the pvp and pve.

If you like endless grind this is not your game. Since that's about all pve offers this is not your game.

Quoted for being WRONG.

Why do all people equal PvE with grind? I don't get it. Really, I don't. I play both PvE and PvP. I love both aspects of the game. I never got the feeling that one aspect is favored above the other. The only true statement would be that GW has CERTAINLY the best PvP mode of all fantasy games in the world while it's not the only great PvE game out there. It doesn't change the fact that GW is GREAT in PvE, too. I prefer GW to other RPGs because your success depends on your skill and not your character. That's the case in both PvE and PVP.

SilentAssassin · Feb 25, 2006, 02:26 PM // 14:26

well lets just agree that this game is both?

PvP and PvE oriented??

I love to play both aspects of the game, thats the only reason why I love this game more then other games, just because it has the 2 main sides in 1 game.

I've never played an MMO (I don't count runescape in it, damn I wasted 6 months on this game, really wasted), I played games like CoD, battlefield,...

GuildWars is just GuildWars and I will always love it

Kakumei · Feb 25, 2006, 02:30 PM // 14:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Siliconwafer

If I played Planescape Torment like an FPS, skipping through the text, killing things, not following the plot, would I be playing the game "wrongly?"
It's a subjective opinion, but I say yes, you would. of course, it's your right to play like that, but there would be better choices out there that would cater to your specific playstyle.

There is certainly such a thing as a wrong opinion. Anyone who argues that playing P:S in the way described above is not wrong is an idiot.

ps Planescape: Torment is a role-playing game. Neverwinter Nights is a role-playing game.

Guild Wars is not a role-playing game, despite the fact that the genre of similar games have received that moniker.

Numa Pompilius · Feb 25, 2006, 02:31 PM // 14:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fantus

Why do all people equal PvE with grind? I don't get it. Really, I don't.

It's really quite easy. They start out thinking "this game is all about PvP, so PvE is just a tutorial". Then they get themselves run/powerleveled/twinked through the game in two weeks, tops, by their guildies. The only thing they ever do in PvE after that is farm. Farm, farm, farm, farm, farm, farm, farm. And farm. Then they farm a bit more.

So for them, the PvE *is* grind. They've by dint of considerable effort purposely MADE IT a grind.

And anyone who played PS:T the way Siliconwafer describes, is so wrong it transcends the scale of mere good & wrong and enter the territory of crimes against nature. It should be criminal. It should be and punished by being forced to eat celery and listen to Justin Timberlake on repeat.

Mordakai · Feb 25, 2006, 02:39 PM // 14:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fantus

Quoted for being WRONG.

Why do all people equal PvE with grind? I don't get it. Really, I don't. I play both PvE and PvP. I love both aspects of the game. I never got the feeling that one aspect is favored above the other. The only true statement would be that GW has CERTAINLY the best PvP mode of all fantasy games in the world while it's not the only great PvE game out there. It doesn't change the fact that GW is GREAT in PvE, too. I prefer GW to other RPGs because your success depends on your skill and not your character. That's the case in both PvE and PVP.

I agree.

And just in case no one has mentioned this:

PvE is cooperative competition. That is, you are finding groups that best suit your needs to defeat a particular mission. Whether this is fun to you or not, depends on YOU. No can tell me its better or worse than PvP, because in the end, it's my choice, not yours.

ll THANE ll · Feb 25, 2006, 02:48 PM // 14:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kakumei

Guild Wars is not a role-playing game, despite the fact that the genre of similar games have received that moniker.

Um tell what what the differnce is about NWN role playing game and guilds wars (forget the pvp islands) ??

Because all that is difference is the system, they both have charter devlopment, magic items, fantasy setting and quests with gold rewards/Xp rewards etc.

If PvP didnt exsit in this game and it wasnt online everyone would call it a RPG, just because its instanced and has PvP dosnt mean this all changes.

Sagius Truthbarron · Feb 25, 2006, 02:53 PM // 14:53

I agree with Kakumei and Numa about skipping cutscenes in a roleplaying game.

I heard that people skip cutscenes and text in Final Fantasy games... Whats that about? Whats the point of playing an RPG if you're just going to do that?

Now I see why the video store is full of light porn movies and crappy comedies, I guess.

While the cutscenes in Guild Wars are terrible (most of them), I get somewhat offended if people don't watch them their first play through.

This may be drifting off topic, but the horse that everone else is beating is starting to twitch of Rigor Mortis. Its begining to smell, too.

Oh well, the struggle continues. Who will conquer the Guild Wars Special Olympics? The PvE Farmers, The PvE cassual players, The PvP Farmers, or the PvP cassual players?

fenix · Feb 25, 2006, 03:00 PM // 15:00

Here's a nice little Guild Wars timeline:

Pre-Searing ------> Ascalon ------> Shiverpeaks ------> Kryta ------> Maguuma Jungle ------> Crystal Desert ------> Shiverpeaks ------> Fire Island Chain ------> Farming or PvP

Clearly this game is intented for PvP, as I am quite sure Anet didn't design it for farming. Once you have finished all those areas (quests and missions), there is nothing left to do but farm. Which is why there is PvP. PvE is simply a warm up to strategies and such so that when you start PvPing, you have a greater knowledge of builds and counters.

Numa Pompilius · Feb 25, 2006, 03:04 PM // 15:04

Talon: And how long did that take you?

fenix · Feb 25, 2006, 03:09 PM // 15:09

Hehe about a minute. Does it show? I hope my marvellous artistry doesn't seem shoddy. But seriously, that's pretty much how it goes in PvE. I'll show you the way I was going to write it:

Pre-Searing ------> Ascalon ------> Shiverpeaks ------> Kryta ------> Maguuma Jungle ------> Crystal Desert ------> Shiverpeaks ------> Fire Island Chain ------> Shiverpeaks ------> Kryta ------> Crystal Desert ------> Shiverpeaks ------> Kryta ------> Crystal Desert ------> Shiverpeaks ------> Kryta ------> Crystal Desert

Kakumei · Feb 25, 2006, 03:24 PM // 15:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by ll THANE ll

Um tell what what the differnce is about NWN role playing game and guilds wars (forget the pvp islands) ??

Because all that is difference is the system, they both have charter devlopment,

No. Guild Wars has ZERO character development. Leveling up and raising numbers is not character development. There's no role-playing. There's no choice.

Guild Wars is a great game. I love it. I've logged in 1200+ hours on both PvE and PvP, easily more than twice the time I've ever spent on any other single game. But to call it a true role-playing game is foolish.

If you want to roleplay, go get on IRC. Go find a MUD. Go play D&D. That's roleplaying.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ll THANE ll

magic items, fantasy setting and quests with gold rewards/Xp rewards etc.

None of these have anything to do with roleplaying.

Loviatar · Feb 25, 2006, 03:47 PM // 15:47

Quote:

=talon]Here's a nice little Guild Wars timeline:

Pre-Searing ------> Ascalon ------> Shiverpeaks ------> Kryta ------> Maguuma Jungle ------> Crystal Desert ------> Shiverpeaks ------> Fire Island Chain ------> Farming or PvP

Clearly this game is intented for PvP, as I am quite sure Anet didn't design it for farming.

WRONG

pvp is an option only for those who wish to do it.

pvp players complain that PVE is the worst possible way to learn pvp.

that comes from top pvp players and shoots that down completely by your own pvp side.

if pvp were the end game they would have skipped 80% of the work done in PVE and simply had training halls to begin with.

pvp is a few isolated sandboxes in a very big playground.

THE MAIN OPTION YOU LEFT OFF YOUT LITTLE TIMELINE IS THE MAIN ONE.

*FINISH GAME, PUT ON SHELF UNTIL NEXT SPECIAL EVENT OR THE NEXT CHAPTER.

REPEAT AS WANTED.*

Akathrielah · Feb 25, 2006, 04:53 PM // 16:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loviatar

WRONG
pvp is a few isolated sandboxes in a very big playground.

In this game PvP is the main event while PvE is the sideshows. PvE in this game isn't very deep unfortunately.

EternalTempest · Feb 25, 2006, 05:00 PM // 17:00

This game is PvP and PvE, BOTH exist in this game it's not one or the other.
To get the "full" game experience you do both but how you play is up to you.

Gaile and the Dev's has stressed this point. They have stated it is a balancing act and work to keep both sides but there BOTH part of the game. Gaile even stated it in her chat w/ the monk strike when she stopped in TK1 about working on both PvE AND PvP.

Look at factions, there expanding game play to be "competive" PvE that is NOT Pvp. There are missions on how well you "perform" the missions counts towards attempt at control with no direct competition in the mission.

It was (by design from the way I see things) to go through both modes. Do PvE vist then move to Pvp. On 2nd characters you can run, short cut through the game to get special unlocks you wanted latter and not do the entire game again. Latter they added Faction Points so you can stay just in PvP. And adding the Battle Isle's goes to address the issue of PvE vs PvP how to play so you can practice if you come from the PvE side.

What I find funny is that This is "Pve and PvP was add" on or the reverse is that both sides of the coin still play meaning anet has done a great job at keeping players w/ different playing styles. Just because the mission system did not show up towards the end doesn't not mean it was "thrown" in a the last minute. The core game was the jobs and the skill balances so pvp would make sense to show 1st for balancing skills and item quickly. Only following chapters on how they do game play will change this arugment I'm afraid to say.

BTW - Factions started development when GW went gold, and C3 started dev Nov (see interviews on front page).

What I find is this, if you want to Pve only, you can, if you want to Pvp you can, the game was designed to do BOTH. Not just one and the other was "thrown" in.

lord of shadow · Feb 25, 2006, 05:18 PM // 17:18

lets think for a second about why we are on this forum..
because we enjoy the game
some of us only pve or pvp
others mix about with both
point is we all play it and its a good game

lets leave it there, shall we?

Loviatar · Feb 25, 2006, 06:06 PM // 18:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by lord of shadow

lets think for a second about why we are on this forum..
because we enjoy the game
some of us only pve or pvp
others mix about with both
point is we all play it and its a good game

lets leave it there, shall we?

i have always said that i favor live and let live as long as they dont try to kick sand in my face.

Numa Pompilius · Feb 25, 2006, 07:05 PM // 19:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kakumei

None of these have anything to do with roleplaying.

While I agree in general, I disagree in detail... I find I play my necro differently than my my paladin, because I perceive their personalities differently. That's role-playing, albeit on a small scale.

However, I'd agree that computer rpg's aren't really role-playing (with the possible exception of PS:T, which at least comes darn close). It's really something of a misnomer to call fantasy combat simulators like NWN or GW "rpg's".

Then again, most pen-and-paper sessions I've played have had very little role-playing in them either, and were basically fantasy combat simulators too.